There was a recent discussion in the comments on an article I did a few days ago entitled "Utah Governor Signs "Driving Card" For Illegal Aliens Bill".

I have decided to post some of that here and also my take on the heart of the issue.

The discussion in the comments started off about the lack of support our Border Patrol receives and quickly turned to people who want to curb illegal immigration as being racist. Funny thing is that both EdWonk and myself are the main defenders of curbing illegal immigration.

For a little background on EdWonk's racism here's his story straight from his mouth:

For your information, both my wife and daughter are Hispanic, not that it matters. They were born in Mexico, and both came to this country through legal means. (Though admittedly the kid was born a U.S. citizen while we were living in Mexico.)

As for my racism and hatred of immigrants? Well I don't know if I've ever disclosed that I am married to a resident alien from the Philippines. We've been married for nearly 14 years. Her take on illegal aliens is the same as mine. She waited in line to legally come to this country. So you can only call someone a racist so many times without knowing his or her background.

Here's a comment by David Eccles who says that it's basically fruitless to try to stop the flow across our border as it's going to happen anyway.

Illegal immigration will happen no matter what we do or how much money we spend. Just like the so-called "war on Drugs," any attempts we make to shut down our borders will fail to stop people from getting into our country.

The very concept of "borders" is by nature devisive and negative. Many conflicts, wars and deaths occur over these imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Re-thinking the way we view other peoples and working together is the only way these issues will be resolved. Europe is slowly, but surely moving in this direction and people are beginning to see the benefits of it. (I.E., the euro, the EU, transportation infrastructure, etc.)

Maybe it sounds utopian in nature, but wouldn't it make more sense and cost far less?

Here is my response to "no border" proponents and those that continue to say America is the problem and we don't give, help or aren't accepting enough.

Actually, Mexico taking responsibility for it's own economy and not encouraging people to illegally sneak into our country instead would be a start.

There are many examples of this including: Mexico Suing The Minuteman Project, Record $16.6B Sent Back To Mexico -- their second highest industry next to oil, Snipers in Mexico shooting at Border Patrol from Mexico and the Mexican government not doing a thing, plot to kidnap and murder FBI agents at Texas-Mexico border exposed, Mexico May Use International Courts To Block Proposition 200, 47% of Hispanic citizens voted for Proposition 200. Better yet just go take a look at the Diggers Realm Immigration Archive to see the blatant support of illegals that the Mexican government is taking.

Then you're telling me we should just work together? We allow a legal amount of people from Mexico in this country every year, but they continue to allow and encourage a literal flood to cross the borders without stopping them. That is not "working together", that is sending your unemployed to this country in order to send money back to your country so you look like you're doing a good job as a leader when you really aren't doing a damn thing for those in your country.

I have no problem with immigrants sending money back to their home country, but only for legal immigrants who are abiding by laws and contributing to the system and services they are using here, not just raping them dry and leaving an empty husk behind.

The Mexican government needs to reform their system and stop keeping its people from living in poverty.

I have no problem with legal immigrants in our country, but there is a reason for the limitations. Our infrastructure, hospitals, education and social systems are only so strong. With the vast numbers of illegals here they are draining resources more than they are putting in and therefore stealing from all citizens and legal immigrants in this country.

It can be witnessed in the huge classroom size increase in California and the massive budget requirements of said system, California's Illegal Aliens Cost Taxpayers Nearly $9 Billion A Year $7.7 billion of which is directly attributed to illegal alien children in our schools here in California. The closing of hospitals in the LA area because of the flood of illegal aliens using the emergency room as their primary care facilities and laws that force the hospitals to take care of them without ever receiving payment and having to eat the costs.

So, when you talk of fair and "working together" let's make sure we're on the same page here.

To say the United States is not allowing immigrants into our country is absurd, we always have, but this massive stream of 3 million unchecked illegal aliens a year is insane and cannot be absorbed by our system, anyone who thinks differently has not looked into the actual numbers and current situation. Then again you could just say everyone in California, Texas and Arizona who want to stop the collapse of their states budgets because of unchecked immigration are just a bunch of racists.

To say we're the ones at fault for trying to defend our borders and have immigration be an orderly and safe part of our national outlook and national security is just ridiculous.

In addition to the above David Eccles points to Europe as a shining example of how immigration and unity between nations should work. I'd like to point out that Europe is having its own issues with immigration. The mass influx of radical Islamic's into the Netherlands has provoked outrage in the nation. The UK has passed new laws because of the problem. Countries across Europe -- including France and Germany -- are concerned with the loss of culture due to the high influx of immigrants who are not embracing the countries they move to, but are simply leeching off of them for a good job and demanding change.

When you move to another country to become a permanent resident of that country you should be expected to actually like the country you're moving to and to want to embrace its culture and outlook. If you're just there with working papers you should try to fit into the country and not expect the country to fit into your way of living. If you don't like a country that wants to keep it's language, culture and national identity then leave. I don't understand why you would expect a place to change because you want to move there and turn it into a place like you just left.

Do we really want this country to be just like Russia or Mexico or the Philippines? If we leave unchecked immigration in place, require everything to be printed in multiple languages, implement special social services for every immigrant group that's coming here and do it all on the backs of the taxpayer, our country will collapse and become a third world nation. Some groups would like this to happen like La Raza and MECha.

I believe these countries that we are accepting immigrants from should want to solve their economic issues and bring a better standard of living to all of those who live in those countries. The American people also feel this way as well and it is why year after year we send economic aid to these countries. Too many of these countries refuse to solve the problem though and continue to use the US as a pressure valve to release some of the masses of unemployed from their country. They continue to accept aid, but refuse to put in place a growth plan that will eventually solve the real problems that are economically facing their countries.

How we solve this in the long run I am not entirely sure. We, as Americans, only have so much say. The people who live in these countries are the ones who really have to stand up and say enough is enough. They have to get rid of these unfulfilling leaders like Fox and Arroyo who have done nothing for their countries other than provide a leader who isn't quite as corrupt as they've had in the past. Being satisfied with a leader simply because they aren't corrupt isn't something the people should settle for, they should demand someone who is actually going to do something about the plight of the massive amount of impoverished people in their nation.