Same thing happens between Republicans and Democrats on a certain level.

But that's what makes politics entertaining (is that really a good thing?).

Ok..I'm going to have to go back and review all the arguments, but I have to ask..how does one come to a moral value through the "scientific" method??

Moral is a method not a conclusion.

As with everything people are not single minded and don't make choices solely based off of one method. A decision can be made on a moral basis even if it's not in the Bible right?

It's the same with someone making a decision based off of scientific proof, even though they're not going around murdering people because "scientifically it gives my offspring an edge in the gene pool".

For someone who bases the majority of their decisions off of Biblical belief you just have to realize that everyone who disagrees with you will end up coming back to your majority method. It just seems like an attack on religion, but it's really a method disagreement. If you can't provide another way to explain your conclusions that they will accept then it will always appear flawed to them whether the method was scientific, faith based or morally decided.

Digger

May I respectfully disagree that "morality is a method."

Morality is but a set of rules, based on personally held values, by which we run our lives.

How one arrives at those values is less important that what those values are.

That's why I asked the question about how one can make a "scientific moral decision." Science, by and large, is amoral..it deals with observation of the real world with no value attached to that gathering of facts. How those facts are integrated to everyday life, what impact they will/will not have moves into the moral/ethical realm.

This is where I think you miss what happens when SOME (not all)"secularists" decry religious people opening their mouths in the public square. They believe they are "above" such "superstition"..that they are more "sophisticated" and they do sometimes try and use science as "superior" substitute of the how of their morality. How often have we heard the argument for/against a particular behavior framed not as "good/bad" but "healthy/unhealthy"? Thus we have almost a RELIGIOUS opposition to those who smoke tobacco because it is unhealthy.

Neither secularists or the faithbased are excused from examining and questioning their actual moral code and values. Too many refuse to engage in debate because, honestly, they haven't really examined the code, just accepted it.

I disagree, morality is a method.

From dictionary.com:
Method: A means or manner of procedure, especially a regular and systematic way of accomplishing something.

When you contemplate whether something is right or wrong you are following a procedure, whether you realize it or not. Just because it becomes easier the next time based off of previous results doesn't mean you aren't following a procedure.

Either way it's all semantics.

People can make moral decisions using their moral code or moral procedure.

See this is where I have a serious problem with religious people. They seem to constantly imply that those who aren't religious can't follow a moral path or make moral decisions using their own method. It has to be "morals God's way or the highway".

As for secularists who criticize for your free speech, well that's America. You can't ban someone criticizing you. Your smoking comparison is a kind of straw man because banning someone outright from doing something doesn't compare to free speech and criticism.

A fair comparison to the smoking issue would be having someone give you scowls or snide comments or fake coughs as they pass you while you are smoking. Which happens anyway.

You're saying secularists look down on religious people goes both ways because a lot of religious people look down on secularists and preach to them about how their immoral and wrong. It goes both ways.

Oh and it's not just the religious right by the way. The people who do things like that are pretty much equal opportunity...

Darleen: "Morality is but a set of rules, based on personally held values, by which we run our lives."

That definition is the meaning of "method".