Remember that some part of America used to have laws that forbid black people to get married. Laws are created by people to protect their interests. American laws have always been created by Americans to protect their interests. But churches are not supposed to favor Americans over people from other countries. Churches have to follow their own principles, one of which says "All men are created equal."

There is another issue though. Why is Catholic Church the only church that is worried? I guess they are the only one that will gain power by allowing current illegal immigrants to become legal because current illegal immigrants are mostly Catholic. All political fights are over power. Those who fight against illegal immigrants do so because they feel that they will become minority if the illegal immigrants, most of whom are minority, become permanent residents here. This is especially true for members of the House of Representative. They want the status quo. They are fearful of change in the direction that is not in their favor. So they fight hard to keep minority population to grow.

Look at how New York City thrives on being open to all Americans. No any New Yorker ever complaints about having people coming from all over America. Why can't Americans figure out that it is better for America to be open to people from all around the world? The only problems I can think of are:

1. It will be much more difficult to govern. But there are people who are able to govern New York City. I think there will be people who can rise to the challenge to govern an America that is open to the world.

2. The rent will go skyrocketing. Then the landlords get to make more money from each piece of land and invest more money in it to make it more beautiful or luxury or whatever they think is better for the property they own. This is only good for America.

3. The president may not be White any more. But that is only an issue that those White people who want to run for president will be more concerned about. Unless you are worried that you will have to learn Spanish because a Hispanic president wants us to. But that is very unlikely to happen.

"All men are created equal."

Actually this isn't a church belief, but was in the Declaration of Independence.

If you want to go by church beliefs then you better turn in your "equal rights" card, because if you have ever read The Bible women shouldn't be "equal". Hell, they don't even allow women priests or alter boys.

As for immigration...

Contrary to popular belief, most of us for immigration reform are against illegal immigrants, not immigration in general. Immigration has always been a part of our country and is a good thing when controlled. It's the flood of people coming in illegally -- whom we don't know -- that are destroying communities and services across the country.

Funny thing is that no matter how hard the open borders proponents try to paint us as a bunch of racists, the truth is nearly 50% of legal immigrants here also want to end illegal immigration.

Illegal Immigration is bad for the education system, social services, the tax system, social security, the health care system, disease control, congestion and the safety and security of the United States of America.

I recently read the funniest (in a pathetic way) article about the local (Staten Island) Jewish Commmunity Center having problems with their hispanic "immigrant" enrollees in an ESL program.

While they all could SPEAK Spanish, the overwhelming majority could not READ or WRITE their native language, so the instructors had to teach them how to do that before they could begin teaching them English.

"Funny thing is that no matter how hard the open borders proponents try to paint us as a bunch of racists, the truth is nearly 50% of legal immigrants here also want to end illegal immigration."

I agree with you. Even my relatives, who immigrated to the US as political refugees, want me to leave after I lost my job which I got legally and was taken away illegally. I am not sure what make them hate illegal immigrants so much. I never asked them for a penny. I never lived with them.

I have paid plenty of taxes during the years I worked legally and even after I lost my last job because I had income from the sale of my stocks. But I have never got to ask for any benefit, unemployment or medicare. I paid my own hospital bills. And now I only have the choice to loose $50,000 investment and over six years of hard work building my company.

You may want to ask why I risk loosing my investment to build a company here while I am illegal. I had no choice. I was not allowed to work for other companies since I have become illegal for not getting a new job quickly enough after I lost my last job. Why did I overstay my visa then? I had to sue my last boss for the stock options he took away from me. And it took me nearly two years to get a settlement and a few more months to get all of my money.

Laws are very much like computer programs. When you write computer programs, you do not know all the situations the the programs will have to deal with. You have to change the programs again and again as you find more and more problems with them. It is not that the programs are not good. It is just that they are only good for the situations that you have designed the programs to deal with. To deal with new situations, you will need to change the programs. The same can be said about laws. When you set up laws that say people have to leave as soon as they are out of work, you are thinking that there can be no reason for them to stay after they have lost their jobs. But this is not true.

From my experience, I imagine that there can be thousands of other reasons for other illegal immigrants to become illegal or to be illegal from start.

What you need to do is to find out why they are illegal and see if changes should be made to your laws. Think about Rosa Park. If nothing changed after she did something illegal at that time, you will still have segregation on the buses in Alabama today.

Another thing I do not understand about my relatives is that they hate communism so much that they risked their life to fled their country and found refuge in the US. And I have suffered the political oppression of the communists first hand myself. Yet, they are not concerned sending me back to where I am from, where I have tried my best to escape.

I am sorry that I have made many grammar mistakes in my last post. So I corrected it and post it again.

"Funny thing is that no matter how hard the open borders proponents try to paint us as a bunch of racists, the truth is nearly 50% of legal immigrants here also want to end illegal immigration."

I agree with you. Even my relatives, who immigrated to the US as political refugees, wanted me to leave after I lost my job which I got legally and was taken away illegally. I am not sure what make them hate illegal immigrants so much. I never asked them for a penny. I never lived with them.

I have paid plenty of taxes during the years I worked legally and even after I lost my last job because I had income from the sale of my stocks. But I have never got to ask for any benefit, unemployment or medicare. I paid my own hospital bills. And now I only have the choice to loose $50,000 investment and over six years of hard work building my company.

You may want to ask why I risked loosing my investment to build a company here while I was illegal. I had no choice. I was not allowed to work for other companies since I had become illegal for not getting a new job quickly enough after I lost my last job. Why did I overstay my visa then? I had to sue my last boss for the stock options he took away from me. And it took me nearly two years to get a settlement and a few more months to get all of my money.

Laws are very much like computer programs. When you write computer programs, you do not know all the situations the the programs will have to deal with. You have to change the programs again and again as you find more and more problems with them. It is not that the programs are not good. It is just that they are only good for the situations that you have designed the programs to deal with. To deal with new situations, you will need to change the programs. The same can be said about laws. When you set up laws that say people have to leave as soon as they are out of work, you are thinking that there can be no reason for them to stay after they have lost their jobs. But this is not true.

From my experience, I imagine that there can be thousands of other reasons for other illegal immigrants to become illegal or to be illegal from start.

What you need to do is to find out why they are illegal and see if changes should be made to your laws. Think about Rosa Park. If nothing changed after she did something illegal at that time, you would still have segregation on the buses in Alabama today.

Another thing I do not understand about my relatives is that they hate communism so much that they risked their life to fled their country and found refuge in the US. And I have suffered the political oppression of the communists first hand myself. Yet, they are not concerned sending me back to where I am from, where I have tried my best to escape.

I forgot to tell you that I came here legally as a student and went to work legally after I graduated with a Master degree in Computer Science. Still I became illegal after a few years of legal full time employment.

I have invested in higher education in the US by paying out of state tuition fee for my graduate school education.

I also contributed to the economy of the town where my graduate school was. When I arrived at the town, there were so many empty apartments that I found an apartment as soon as I walked down the street. The landlords in the town had a hard time finding tenants.

The thing US benefits from me the most is the education and training I received from my home country. I have not contributed to the economy of my home country which is a great concern for my home country.

While you have to bring in more high tech talents from other countries, why do you forbid those who are already here to take jobs simply because they stay out of job for just a few weeks? Shouldn't you rethink your immigration laws.

Is there an illegal way for an American from other states to come to New York and take jobs in New York?

No. Why? Because there is no law forbidding Americans from other states to come to New York and take jobs in New York.

What makes people illegal is the law that forbid them from doing certain things. If you change the law or remove the law, certain activity will not be illegal any more.

I think the problem with illegal immigrants is that there is no legal mean for them to do what they want to do such as coming to look for jobs, or overstaying to look for jobs or to deal with some issues.

And some provisions in US immigration laws make staying here forever the only choice for a lot of immigrants. For example, you will not be allowed to come back in ten years if you have overstayed your visa for more than a year.

Also, I should stress that what I want is not a Green Card but the freedom to come and go as I want to. And I think a lot of illegal immigrants would agree with me.

I was NOT going to weigh in until I saw Jane Lu's nefarious diatribe, especially her comment that no New Yorker's are opposed to a never ending stream of illegal aliens, and that we get along just fine as a completely open community. She obviously has been on her knees listening to and embracing Mayor Blooomberg's sanctuary edicts for the New York Metro area.

I am a landscaper who cannot compete with the pricing structure brought to my industry because of illegal workers in said industry, and contrary to Bushy Boy's wrong claims, I do want and am willing to take that work being stolen from me by these illegal aliens.

I do not care if you are white, black, purple, green, do not care if you are straight, bi, gay or practice some obtuse religion I have never heard of, if you are here legally, I support you...but, I have SERIOUS issues with those in this country ILLEGALLY who are stealing our jobs, ruining our way of life, and have SERIOUS issues with the Catholic Church helping these people, and taking a political stand on the issue...where is the IRS at, why have they not revoked their tax exempt status?

A Wake up call Jane Lu...illegal aliens depress legal citizens of America wages by over 200 BILLION Dollars a year. Most of that hit is taken by our lower middle and lower class workers with young blacks being hit the hardest with and over all depreciation of their wages by some 12.3 percent according to some statistics. I know our wages are being depressed in the middle class, because I routinely lose landscaping jobs to companies willing to hire illegal aliens at discounted wages as it allows them to UNDERBID me...should I become a common criminal like these dishonest companies in the name of competition?

Illegal Aliens are ruining our neighborhoods...no, not being racist, stating a fact. Most Americans respect local laws as relates to housing, and how many people can live in any given house...not illegals. We have a house on our block with over 30 people living in it...trust me, I know first hand what happens when these tenement FLOP HOUSES start springing up.

Like it or not, majority of the influx of illegals are from Latin countries, with most of the influx from Mexico. These illegals MAKE NO ATTEMPTS to embrace and adopt our American way of life, but instead act as if it is their right to maintain their culture and expect us to adapt to and accept their way of living life! When their way of life include throwing their beer bottles in my flower beds, when their way of life includes urinating in public because they are too lazy or too drunk to walk inside their house to take a leak, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Lastly, our nation has some of the most GENEROUS immigration laws in the world...BUT, we have to have a limit, and no one here illegally wants or is willing to accept this. Our own middle class is being destroyed under a flood of illegal aliens who are bringing a pricing structure to the labor market that makes us all but slaves to Corporate America...it's called supply and demand, and when a tidal wave if illegal aliens creates a larger supply of workers than there is demand, there is a resultant drop in our wages and benefits...sorry, but time to shut the flow down to a trickle, and deport at least half of those who are now illegally here.

Pinto Bean

I just want to say that I see no difference in what is happening now with the hispanic immigrants and what happened in the 1800's with the European immigrants. At that point in time America opened its arms to the immigrants from France, Ireland, Germany, etc. Almost all of them came here in search of economic success, and they were never called illegal aliens. Yet, now when the Mexican people and the people from Latin America come to the US for the same reasons, we deport them or call them criminals.

I see no reason why the hispanics should be dealt with differently than the Europeans. Half of us, if not more would'nt be here now if America deported all the immigrants in the 1800's. If the underlying reason is racism, which I think it very well may be, then this whole Immigration Reform is unconstitutional and completely un-American.

America is a "melting pot" so any ideas of keeping America pure is ridiculous because none of us are pure. And thats the beautiful thing about America, that we can have and accept all kinds of people, religions, and cultures.

I have many hispanic friends, who are all hardworking, and wonderful people. And I don't know what I would do without them if they were to be deported. They work harder than most people I know, and send half of what they earn home to their families. The incredible journeys they make just to get here show just how strong these people are.

Why would we reject hardworking, strong people who ask for almost nothing in return for their hard labors?

Allison, I think you've missed the point. Did you read Pinto Bean's comment? If not, go back and read it. In every point, he was absolutely corect. The left-wing media wants to turn this into a racial issue. The issue has nothing to do with race or LEGAL immigrants, we are talking about ILLEGAL - ones that sneak into the U.S. without proper documentation. It seems people are confused about this issue.

How would you feel if you moved to another country and jumped through every hoop imaginable to become a legalized citizen only to have those that moved to that same country ILLEGALY be rewarded and jumped the line ahead of you? Think about it. Take the emotion out of it and use logic. Would that be fair?

We are a nation of laws that MUST be followed. Do you think only Latino's want a better life for themselves and their families? Cubans, Haitians, etc., want the same, but believe me, they would be sent back as soon as their feet hit American soil. We must, I repeat MUST, keep track of undocumented people coming here. If we don't we will be in a world of trouble - actually I think we already are.

Right on, Pinto Bean!

Allison, you keep wanting to make this and issue of RACE when it is not.

1) Though the numbers vary, there seems to be some agreement that there are at least 12-15 million illegal aliens in American...of this number, ONLY HALF are of Latino decent, half of that half are believed to be Mexican. The House bill DOES NOT say we are ONLY DEPORTING illegal aliens from Mexico, it does not say we are only going to deport Latino's here illegally. It says we are going to deport ALL THOSE HERE ILLEGALLY. In short, equal enforcement of OUR LAWS regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation.

2. You want to compare the immigration to America in the 1800's to the flood of illegal aliens in todays society, and you are comparing apples to oranges. The numbers alone make the situation completely different. For instance, in the 1830 census, there were just shy of 13 million people living in ALL OF AMERICA...we have more illegal aliens here right now (and remember, we had and Amnesty in 1986) than the total population of America during the time you are wanting to compare to. Like it or not, we are a nation of limited resources, and limited opportunities. We have the most LIBERAL immigration laws and numbers in the entire world, but we simply cannot have a door that is completely and ALWAYS open.

3. Your friends might be HARD WORKING, but if they are here illegally, THEY STILL BROKE OUR LAWS, and our stilling stealing a job from and American who is here legally.

Pinto Bean

You might be able to pull the wool over other u.s. citizens eyes..but not mine...My parents immigrated here LEGALLY..they jumped through hoops and gave up their citizenship in their former homeland..What you are doing is not only illegal, it is immoral. You want to have your cake and eat it too, by supporting amnesty and being in this country you are not helping this economy as you would like others to think, YOU are still retaining the rights you have in your homeland, rights that I willl never be given..You are mearly stunting the growth of new technologies,(as in the case of the new system of picking tomatos by machines in ca.) and weakening our system of laws by breaking them.. How can anything argument comming from you be taken seriously when you are one of the offenders that are benefiting from our lack of immigration enforcement?? You have everything to gain from a blanket amnesty..
If illegals like you are held to a different set of laws than legal citizens like myself, how again will that benefit the U.S. as a nation?? Tell me, why are you not in your homeland trying to advance the rights of your fellow citizens instead of being here?? It's probably because you have A LOT to gain financially.. So if it's money you are REALLY after, WHY are you trying to FALSELY portray yourself as a humanitarian?? There are people out there in the world doing just that, helping others reguardless of monitary gains..YOU are not one of them. So don't be disrespectful by trying to have us make the assumption that deep down you are really a good person who wants nothing more than peace in the world..ACTIONS speak louder than words, and judging by the actions you, yourself have admitted to..You have no interest other than SELFinterest...YOU benefitted by our education system, "I came here legally as a student and went to work legally after I graduated with a Master degree in Computer Science." and YOU benefitted by the job you were able to obtain afterwards. THIS country owes you NOTHING..
By the way, your question, "Is there an illegal way for an American from other states to come to New York and take jobs in New York?", is sooo illogical, it's ridiculous!!.. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, is a countrys made up of STATES. A person is a CITIZEN of the country, U.S.A., they are a RESIDENT of the state they reside in..The beautiful thing about this country is that it takes advantage of the fact that not everyone will agree with every law passed, hence we have state laws..and we have federal laws, which the vast majority of u.s. citizens can agree on.. If you are trying to twist the facts around let me clear it up, and untwist them, (facts don't like to be twisted) The fact that yes, a CITIZEN of this COUNTRY, is allowed to move around their COUNTRY legally, is not by ANY means an issue with illegal immigration. It is a CITIZENS right! It is NOT an ILLEGAL alien's right!

1. It is NOT racist to call these people "illegal aliens" In fact, "illegal aliens" is the only term used in federal laws and regulations to describe criminals (and they ARE criminals) who come into our country illegally. They are not illegal immigrants, not undocumented immigrants, not migrant workers, and not day laborers - they're ILLEGAL ALIENS.

2. Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world, and by sending its teeming masses to our country, that status keeps on rising. Mexico has more resources per square mile than the U.S. and plenty of money to take care of its own people. Why should the taxpayers of this country subsidize Mexico's corruption?

3. Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. CNN recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT doing work Americans won't do. What jobs won't Americans do? In most states, Americans still clean their own houses, do their own landscaping, clean hotel rooms, work in restaurants and fast food places, paint houses, DO CONSTRUCTION WORK, work in airports, etc. - just like we have the past 200 years before "our" government allowed these people to invade our country. There are 18 million Americans who cannot find a job, so illegal aliens who are coming here to work do so at peril to American workers.

5.Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. We have seen them pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4, 000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents). The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a whopping $55, 000 each. Some bargain, eh?

6. The economy does NOT depend on illegal aliens. Sure, greedy CEOs (making $50 to $150 MILLION a year) and business owners depend on illegal aliens, but due to ..3, ..4 and ..5 above, the only thing illegal aliens are contributing to is the collapse of our economy and making the rich richer.

7. Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will NOT soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa's "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that 'since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1, 000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.

8. Consumers are NOT benefiting from lower labor costs. Again, it's CEOs and business owners who benefit from taxpayer subsidies for their illegal alien workers. The Big Three automakers say they moved so many jobs to Mexico because their labor costs are 80 percent less than in America. Anybody notice the price of new cars spiraling downward under NAFTA?

So, before you believe the prevalent pack of lies perpetuated by the illegal alien lobby, which makes billions off this government-sanctioned criminal activity, ask yourself who's saying this garbage and look at what they have to gain.

Pinto Bean

*clapping, nodding in agreement

The elite class in America is becoming a ruling class and they've made enough money by hiring cheap illegal labor that they think they also have some kind of a right to cheap servants to manicure their nails and their lawn, for example.

So this ruling class, this new ruling class of America, is expanding a servant class in America at the expense of the middle class of America, the blue collar of America that used to be able to punch a time clock, buy a modest house and raise their families. ... Those young people are cut out of this process.

I wonder if jane lu is using a false s.s.n...prob..if she is "paying taxes" as she claims...JANE LU the minimum fine for fraudulantly as you are is $250,000?? Are you going to pay that?? prob. not..and if you ruin the person who you are borrowing the s.s. number from's credit/ work history...are you just going to say..well it should be a free world and i should be able to use anyone's identity that i want! We have laws to protect people that are citizens of this country, NOT to just INCoNvIenCe YOU! I'm sorry your 'homecountry' did not provide you with a better education, or that your parents did not instill commonsense into you..but that's not this country's problem.. and as for you saying that "I had no choice" for staying in this country...EVEN YOU know that it is a blatant lie...YOU are staying here because you EARN more money, many in your country have returned and are benefitting your 'homecountry', you on the other hand are just a burden on ours...

I have been following this immigration isue for some time. The Catholic Church has stated in her writtings that Christopher Columbus founded this country & they claim it belongs to their church & they intend to take it back. If you look at congress a majority Catholic, supreme court justices majority Roman Catholic,& a lot of your local government Roman Catholic.
I personally read in a Catholic home a document where the church is keeping track of the voting block in each state. It is a very simple reason why so many are being brought into this country it is to give the church the ability to control the vote(Trojan Horse immigration).They are making every effort to get everyone to vote.

I was listening to a Babtist radio station program about 5 years ago & the program had a man from immigration on who was backing this very information up.At that time he said he did some of his own investigaton & found their to be about 20 million illegals here. He said that the CATHOLIC Church was responsible because the head of immigration was non other than someone that the Church had planted there to bring about their wishes.
They were caught in our area giving out fake birth cirtificates from one of their hospitals.

They have no problem telling lies because they beleive that the end justifies the means. Just look at what they did during the dark ages in the name of religion. They killed hundreds of millions of people because they didn't agree with them . This land was founded on religious freedom when will America wake up & relize we are playing with a rattlesnake.
You guys should read the book "The Keys of this Blood" by Malachi Martin...They are behind the "New World Order" one world Government.All you have to do is look at the countries where Roman Catholic church controls most all of the leaders are corrupt. Power Corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutly.

You'r out of control Lee! You write like a right-wing Baptist who is a member of the KKK, are you? Last I heard Jerry Falwell, and the Baptist lobbyists, were still trying hard to sway U.S. policy and law - every religious organization pushes its agenda in Washington!

Read Pat Buchanan's book "State of Emergency" and you will have a more well-rounded view of the history and current condition of legal, as well as illegal, immigration in the U.S. In his definitive work, Pat criticizes the Catholic Church for its shameless support of illegal immigration, and suggests that the Church is doing it to increase its dwindling constituency in the U.S. However, their is no Vatican conspiracy to topple the U.S. government and turn us into a colony of the "Roman Church". This crap has persisted ever since the first Catholics landed on our shores, and will continue as long as there are bigots.

By the way, my personal view on illegal immigration is that of Pat Buchanans - shut the door until we can get our house in order. Regarding the Catholic Church, it should immediately abandon its stance on illegal immigration, and the Vatican should stop meddling in our sovereignty issues.

It fits our needs perfectly the advantage of immigration reform on the country: Greater supply of unskilled workers, a younger workforce, and skilled workers in needed sectors. But there is also a disadvantage of immigration reform like Greater poverty, more educational cost, lower unskilled wage levels, and increased danger of terrorism. Thanks to the post!